[bogus]

Don't forget that people who leave guild should be permanently terminated otherwise they can bring know-how to new guild.

[Marlekin]

Originally Posted by Chaoskult Maybe some of the information that we have shared to public have helped other guilds to improve their own existing tactics. I'm certain that somebody has followed in our footsteps and adopted our way to be their choice of tactic.

The T3.5 Archfiend description helped us in our new T3.5 raid, so in fact i payed my regards in our first-kill statement in the progression thread:

Originally Posted by Marlekin ... Des weiteren einen Gruss&Dank an die QQAllStars(Server Crom), die freundlicherweise eine detaillierte Beschreibung der Boss-Fähigkeiten ins Netz gestellt haben - das hat uns einiges an Zeit und Nerven erspart.

..which says "regards&thanks to the QQAllstars, who were so kind to post a detailed description of the boss abilities in the net - this saved us a good deal of time and nerves."


In fact, it did help us to save time and, more importantly, reduce the frustration wear. (We killed the Archfiend on the 6th evening of our raid.) As our raid is a mixed-guilds raid, hosted by our small guild of just about 15 members... some progress is essential to us. We can't motivate people the same way the big raid guilds can, where progress is inevitable ... as a mixed-guild-raid we have a higher fluctuation of members.... we had several new, unkown people ... starting this T3.5 raid from scratch was a risk for us.

So how did the QQAllStar description help us? In fact it was not so much the tactics suggestion - the old pre-bug fix tactic doesn't work anymore anyway - but some details of the description of encounter mechancis. We had figured out a good part by ourselves, but there were some crucial points which we learned here, which would have been time-consuming to figure out ourselves (though we certainly would have been capable of doing so).

After understanding the boss's abilities, we built the actual, detailed tactic then on our own - and this is imho necessary anyway, because for such a rather hard boss one has to tailor the tactics to the strengths and capabilities of the individual raid members.

And this is where in the end the raids succeed or fail, I think:

- the individual strengths of players ('skillz' regardless of equip)
- the players' ability to adjust to the encounter: the right combos/spells/abilities, the right equipment, the right feat spec.
- learning the right movement, timing etc during the encounter
- the raid lead's ability to ask for these things, analyse the wipes, explain the encounter, and keep the pack together


edit: So as a conclusion perhaps consider this:



Do not post your tactics if you don't like. But perhaps do consider to post descriptions of the boss abilities - and leave it to the rest to develop their own tactics then.

I'd like to see that approach from the leading raid guilds.

[twit]

Originally Posted by Bibik The rest is pure ego

Of course it's ego. I was part of making this kill happen, we're that good.
Ego drives progression in a game.

[Barrefaeli]

Originally Posted by bogus Don't forget that people who leave guild should be permanently terminated otherwise they can bring know-how to new guild.

i never said that a person who leaves a guild cant share the tactics with his new guild, that's his right, but his new guild cant go then and claim the tactic as their own on public forum.
the least you could do is say something like:
thanks to kadar for giving us destiny basilisk tactic
thanks to scoot for leaking us CoE general tactic

also, to sum it up, a guild that cracks an encounter on it's own has every right to publish the tactic but it also has the right not to, but what im against is:
1. guilds posting tactics that they got from other guilds that actually cracked it.
2. ppl that call themselves awesome raiders and come here to ask for tactics, before even trying to crack it on their own.

[tearsofpayne]

Originally Posted by Barrefaeli i never said that a person who leaves a guild cant share the tactics with his new guild, that's his right, but his new guild cant go then and claim the tactic as their own on public forum. the least you could do is say something like: thanks to kadar for giving us destiny basilisk tactic thanks to scoot for leaking us CoE general tactic also, to sum it up, a guild that cracks an encounter on it's own has every right to publish the tactic but it also has the right not to, but what im against is: 1. guilds posting tactics that they got from other guilds that actually cracked it. 2. ppl that call themselves awesome raiders and come here to ask for tactics, before even trying to crack it on their own.

are you joking? i will ignore completly what you just wrote, i want proof for what you saying to me its just butt hurt crap and fracture egos talking

[bogus]

Barre you didn't get what I ment. I wasn't clear enough.

People migrate between guilds, we have friends all around and that's not secret we're talking when we're grouped, during raid or even if we spam/troll ourselfs with tell. About lot of things, also about raid tactics we are working on/using. So it's fact that even 'secret tactics' for new bosses are and will be leaking between some guilds.

But not everyone takes part in this circus. They may be casuals, not interested in troll love, playing on different server etc. etc. So they aren't getting help others do. And that opens space for people who want to give access to that knowlage to more people to break that idiotic situation.

Leaking is leaking, no matter if you do that via tell or on public forum. But in 1st option you can't be removed from your guild since no one is able to prove you leaked anything. As anyone cant prove that you didn't get any help from others who killed it earlier if you aren't world first.

[Chaoskult]

Originally Posted by Barrefaeli the least you could do is say something like: thanks to kadar for giving us destiny basilisk tactic thanks to scoot for leaking us CoE general tactic

The tactics that we have written are word-to-word same as Kadars and Scoots tactics for those bosses? It is quite impressive that you know exactly what they told us, you have a gift.

It is obvious that this issue is very important to you. Almost like you take it personally and that we have stolen something so valuable from you that it really eats you. Why is it only you? Have you lost something because the tactics were made public?

There must be a reason why you are so defensive about this thing. I have no need to turn this into a flaming contest but you apparently have some unfinished business with me or us who were involved with QQ.

[Barrefaeli]

this is isnt personal, i got nothing personal against anybody, QQallstars happened to be the guild that posted the tactics, that's why u guys are the subject of this discussion, that's the only reason, but i'll stop posting on this subject now, my opinion is clear, and like i said, i have nothing personal against u guys.

Originally Posted by tearsofpayne are you joking? i will ignore completly what you just wrote, i want proof for what you saying to me its just butt hurt crap and fracture egos talking

proof?
ok, scoot ADMITED that he did it.
about basilisk:
1. the QQ tactic is exactly the way destiny used to do it when kadar killed it with us.
2. it took destiny (server first) 2 weeks to crack basilisk tactic, it took CoE (server second) 3 weeks, it took tainted souls (server third) more than a month, it took QQallstars 4 days (and it was not long after kadar joined QQallstars after killing the basilisk with destiny), u see where im going?
again, kadar had every right to do it.

[Touchii]

I dont understand one thing, what is wrong with cracking the tactic on your own? I mean if you want that precious loot, use your head and crack the tactic, ppl who killed as world first or server first, did some one help us in T4? did someone helped us in T3.5? no one did, we figured those tactics on our own strength, with the dedication players have, please stop ranting and whining that so called elite guilds dont give you tactics, THOSE ELITE GUILDS WORK HARD TO GET A RAID WORKING, and if you dont like it go play hello kitty online and prolly you will ask 4 years old kids to provide you with tactics since you cant use your own head.

[cynara]

Originally Posted by Touchii I dont understand one thing, what is wrong with cracking the tactic on your own? I mean if you want that precious loot, use your head and crack the tactic, ppl who killed as world first or server first, did some one help us in T4? did someone helped us in T3.5? no one did, we figured those tactics on our own strength, with the dedication players have, please stop ranting and whining that so called elite guilds dont give you tactics, THOSE ELITE GUILDS WORK HARD TO GET A RAID WORKING, and if you dont like it go play hello kitty online and prolly you will ask 4 years old kids to provide you with tactics since you cant use your own head.

Well, I personally would greatly prefer to get better loot without much effort, than to have to "work hard" at it and to be involved in figuring out tactics etc. I simply don't find those things to be any fun, and I don't particularly see why the game developers should cater to people like you instead of to people like me.

Originally Posted by Barrefaeli in your opinion, whenever funcom releases new content they should post the tactic themselves and let ppl try to execute it? it's the same thing.

I personally would love it if they did that. It would save everyone so much trouble.