[Silirrion]

I think I have answered on the Shrines quite a few times now. Overall we are reasonably happy with the feature and how it is settling in. We will of course consider the feedback and look at ways in which we can improve it in the future.

As I have said several times now though you won't see any short term knee-jerk reactions to the system, and certainly not before the expansion.

After the expansion you may see some adjustments to improve them further. There have certainly been some good suggestion on the forums (alongside some bad and / or unrealistic ones) and down the line we might consider some additions tweaks and adjustments to the system.

Overall though we are happy that on the majority of the servers the feature is functioning well, being used, and has met it's goal of providing more objective based PVP progression in the Border Kingdoms, which was the goal all along.

We are fully aware that a number of players and guilds (on Fury in particular) would prefer something totally different, and clearly have different ideas about what they would like to see. That is a much longer term discussion and to be honest, probably wouldn't be addressed in the slightest by any changes to the Shrines feature that we would be comfortable with. That is because what that camp really wants, when you distill down the feedback, is something very different (namely progression only through killing other players and not so focused on objectives). That is much more of a complex issue, as any system where that is done invariably gets exploited (as we saw with 'fight clubbing' and the like, so this isn't an imaginary fear). Changes to the Shrines aren't really going to address that in any way, as it would remain an objective based system, and would remain as part of gaining tokens.

What you guys who clearly don't prefer that type of a system are asking for really isn't changes to that system. It is for something entirely different altogether.

I think the system itself serves the purpose it is designed to, and is providing that game-play to people who enjoy that form of PVP. Just like mini-games aren't everyone's 'favorite style' of PVP, neither are the Shrines, that doesn't mean they aren't a valid addition.

So I think the 'please give us some way to progress through just killing / zerging each other, and make it interesting, but don't focus it on objectives because that's more boring for us' is a harder design challenge, at least to do so while considering all the possible exploits. It is also a very specific type of consideration that only really presents value on one server, which further complicates considering a feature addition here.

Objective based PVP allows us to minimise potential exploiting and gaming of the system. Creating a totally open system where you are just rewarded for killing each other, while not impossible, is more problematic, and doesn't really have anything to do with a feature like the Shrines of Bori.

That isn't to say we can't add another PVP feature or progression mechanic down the line, that is more focused purely on killing each other. That could be considered after the expansion if we felt it was a worthwhile addition to the PVP feature set in the long run. e are completely open to considering something like that in the future (although I do think, as above, it presents some very specific challenges that might not be easy to overcome)

All that said, like I said at the top, some of the feedback is constructive, generally that which recognizes the feature for what it is, and suggests ways to improve the system (rather than change into something else), and after the expansion we may well look to make some further adjustments and improvements in the Shrines feature.

[RedVelvet]

Again Sill writes a wall of text that reveals.......well nothing.

You ever thought of being a politician ?

[Silirrion]

Originally Posted by RedVelvet Again Sill writes a wall of text that reveals.......well nothing. You ever thought of being a politician ?

Not really sure that equates to nothing. I think it's a pretty clear explanation of where we are at with the question that was asked - 'Are you considering any short term changes to the Shrines feature?' - I think the answer not only answers that, but provide insight into the why, and our take on the feedback to the feature.

...if you really think that is saying 'nothing'...well, I am pretty sure there is nothing I could say that would possibly please you

[Yay-grind]

Sil I'll just say that its really sad to see you finally throwing down the mask and practically attacking your loyal paying customers by posts like these.

I'm also stunned that after all the feedback from all EU servers (not just the "big bad Fury") you won't recognize the main problems:

1. You gain best reward if you don't do any pvp at all. You just farm in small groups on small servers and yield best rewards. Both pxp and tokens. This is pure progression in pvp through pve.
2. Small groups and solo players can't do shrines in prime time since they are shut down by big guilds - they won't be able to get the gear ever
3. On big and healthy populated servers (those that one would think you want to promote, not practically destroy and falsely accuse of hacking, etc...) - best reward from shrines is achieved by those that play in ungodly hours, no where near primetime.


I'll give you one recognition though. You managed to divide the community and make them turn against each others. Players are being accused of exploiting by simply doing the system you implemented and are saying its ok and won't get changed.

[ectomorph]

@Sillirion: While you guys think about what you will, and will not do with the shrines, could you merge the tokens needed so I'm not forced to do Bori PVP for gear ? Or find some solution where you are not forced to grind content you don't want to do.

[Hyen]

Thx for the response!

If I can summarize it, u saying and promising that after expansion will come some changes...Sorry, but I must laugh and cry (both in one time).

Originally Posted by Silirrion (namely progression only through killing other players and not so focused on objectives)

But we love killing each others, thats what we want. We dont want digging, we want fighting. Why u think that minigames quest are favourite and Shrines arent? In minigames we must fight, but in CE we must dig.

I like what u saying here "As I have said several times now though you won't see any short term knee-jerk reactions to the system", but u really think that ppl have trust in u?

And I say u why I think that u dont doing your yob good. When some team launch any project and it works, they can go work for the something else, something new. But If that project is bad, they must fix it, coz nobody wants pay for something which doesnt work. And this is exactly case of Shrines of Bori.

P.S.: I know that my English isnt awesome, but I hope u understand it.

[RedVelvet]

Originally Posted by Silirrion Overall we are reasonably happy with the feature and how it is settling in.

Is not you who matter if you are happy or not, its us, the players. So far all have been dissapointed, on what bases do you say "overall we are happy" ???

Originally Posted by Silirrion There have certainly been some good suggestion on the forums (alongside some bad and / or unrealistic ones) and down the line we might consider some additions tweaks and adjustments to the system.

Which ones ?

Originally Posted by Silirrion Overall though we are happy that on the majority of the servers the feature is functioning well

You mean on PVE ones ? Is it logical that a PVP feautures function well only on PVE servers ?

Originally Posted by Silirrion That is much more of a complex issue, as any system where that is done invariably gets exploited.......................... Objective based PVP allows us to minimise potential exploiting and gaming of the system.

Yeah well tell that to the transfered PVP players on PVE servers,

Originally Posted by Silirrion Just like mini-games aren't everyone's 'favorite style' of PVP, neither are the Shrines, that doesn't mean they aren't a valid addition.

Thats not true, 60% of thep layers do like minis, i dare you to find a singple PVP player who likes shrines.

Originally Posted by Silirrion All that said, like I said at the top, some of the feedback is constructive, generally that which recognizes the feature for what it is, and suggests ways to improve the system (rather than change into something else), and after the expansion we may well look to make some further adjustments and improvements in the Shrines feature.

Ye we heared this before about feedback, but so far in the entire history of AoC FC didn't implemented even a single feauture suggested by the playerbase.

[-Bombata-]

I think Sil was pretty clear.

They like the bori system, and it will not change.

Now, you (players) do whatever you like with that info. I made my choice.


ps: for those who think that bori is awsome on PvE server, pay a transfer, see for yourself, and think again.

[Vajraa]

Have you read the many good suggestions to improve Bori on these forums. Many of which extend to incorporating siegeplay into the Bori token grind.

Do you also realise that people are transferring to pve-rp servers to mindlessly grind tokens whilst holding hands with "enemies."

Don't you think it's a little perverse that the first pvp level 10, will probably be someone who hasn't killed a single person in Cimmerian End?

[RedVelvet]

Originally Posted by Silirrion Not really sure that equates to nothing. I think it's a pretty clear explanation of where we are at with the question that was asked - 'Are you considering any short term changes to the Shrines feature?' - I think the answer not only answers that, but provide insight into the why, and our take on the feedback to the feature. ...if you really think that is saying 'nothing'...well, I am pretty sure there is nothing I could say that would possibly please you

Facts man, facts, stick to the facts.

We want dates, numbers, details about the specific changes, cimmerian end lags, PVP players transfering, stuff like that, appearance of PVPt2 gear, insane number of tokens required......etc. Feed us with facts, not with blablablabla


Well looks here is an example:

Player X asks if the appearance pf PVPt2 gear will be change.
Then comes FC with a post something like:

......blabla............blablabla.............. It is something we are looking into it............blabla

But in the end after reading your post that player X is still left without a clear YES or NO answer.