[Ragebrutalis]

Originally Posted by redevil82 Yes, bow still wins but its very close, and on fights like Yaremka, AZ, and Chatha bow rangers win every time, most likely because any mob movement hurts the x-bow ranger more than a bow due to range and speed. In pvp its very unlikely your target stands still so bow ranger will win there too.

I know this is just being pedantic, but both AZ and Chata are not only fights where xbow rangers outperform bow rangers - they outperform all other classes if they know how to play. Bow rangers got the edge in true single-target fights like yaremka, athyr bast and leviatus (after adds are dead anyway). Any fight where there are adds in range of the boss, an xbow ranger should win.

[Yay-grind]

Originally Posted by Aell Try it on a Straw Man. I have. Have you?

Yes I have, multiple time both on live and quite some time ago on testlive. My testings back me up (on my specific gear and specific builds in both cases that favor pure dps - not necessarily burst one)

Originally Posted by Ragebrutalis I know this is just being pedantic, but both AZ and Chata are not only fights where xbow rangers outperform bow rangers - they outperform all other classes if they know how to play. Bow rangers got the edge in true single-target fights like yaremka, athyr bast and leviatus (after adds are dead anyway). Any fight where there are adds in range of the boss, an xbow ranger should win.

On AZ its possible for xbow ranger to outdps bow one (actually it happened in every raid I've been to) - only because the damage is not the maximum dealt (compared to some pro pve xbow ranger), and you actually loose a bit time to re-position yourself = result is that you don't really pull aggro and you deal more damage since you are hitting adds also (after they have been picked up). Think this encounter is a bit differently played on pvp and pve servers in regards to class roles.

On chatha xbow ranger however shouldn't outdps bow one in almost any case since you don't want to hit adds - this means longer "waiting" time between shots and constant repositioning. Equal skilled bow ranger with good specc should outdps xbow ranger here, but he'll also suffer from not being exactly able to use flame barrage and volley too much.

[redevil82]

Originally Posted by Pippincro On AZ its possible for xbow ranger to outdps bow one (actually it happened in every raid I've been to) - only because the damage is not the maximum dealt (compared to some pro pve xbow ranger), and you actually loose a bit time to re-position yourself = result is that you don't really pull aggro and you deal more damage since you are hitting adds also (after they have been picked up). Think this encounter is a bit differently played on pvp and pve servers in regards to class roles. On chatha xbow ranger however shouldn't outdps bow one in almost any case since you don't want to hit adds - this means longer "waiting" time between shots and constant repositioning. Equal skilled bow ranger with good specc should outdps xbow ranger here, but he'll also suffer from not being exactly able to use flame barrage and volley too much.

Correct x-bow rangers on AZ will not beat the bow ranger because they have to try and position themselves to hit the boss and adds which does not always work and takes time, also the pillars get in the way if you pull AZ behind them. Bow rangers just need to get to max range and unload with very little reason to stop except running out of stamina. IF you pull AZ straight down the middle then it would be possible for x-bow ranger to win but only if they got lucky with add positions and didnt have to waste too much time lining up.

Chatha it should in no way be possible for an x-bow ranger to parse higher than a bow ranger.

AB you can sometimes hit one of the little adds with column shots so x-bow ranger would be closer in that fight. Levi will be x-bow heaven at the begining and bow ranger heaven on the actual boss.

[Vheffner]

Originally Posted by redevil82 Correct x-bow rangers on AZ will not beat the bow ranger because they have to try and position themselves to hit the boss and adds which does not always work and takes time, also the pillars get in the way if you pull AZ behind them. Bow rangers just need to get to max range and unload with very little reason to stop except running out of stamina. IF you pull AZ straight down the middle then it would be possible for x-bow ranger to win but only if they got lucky with add positions and didnt have to waste too much time lining up. Chatha it should in no way be possible for an x-bow ranger to parse higher than a bow ranger. AB you can sometimes hit one of the little adds with column shots so x-bow ranger would be closer in that fight. Levi will be x-bow heaven at the begining and bow ranger heaven on the actual boss.

I would say this is pretty accurate, though with AZ Im always on the boss and not allowed to hit the adds, So I actually parse pretty high still though since I never stop firing and just hit stealth shots when adds pop. I only move when AZ and the tank get close then I sprint max distance and keep up the damage

I love the AB fight those little imps make for some great damage padding I parse very high on it. Strangely enough I seem to almost always hit #1 on the parse for the Gargoyle fight. Cant comment on Yaremka since I'm always on bowl duty.

I also agree that when making class changes PvE can never be disregarded, it is very important in this game and seems what Craig has changed the focus to, I think PvP will always be considered 2nd.

[Ragebrutalis]

Originally Posted by redevil82 Chatha it should in no way be possible for an x-bow ranger to parse higher than a bow ranger.

An ok geared xbow ranger can shoot all adds before saturos is dead and not die of retributive damage. If position is right, he can shoot all adds including boss most shots and survive just fine. Probably depends a bit on tactic, but the way we kill him xbow rangers are almost always top dps - not just among rangers, but every class.

And the repositioning on AZ really doenst take that long a time. I would say I hit boss + 1 or 2 adds 90% of my shots. Have never been beaten by a bow ranger on any boss with adds.

[redevil82]

Originally Posted by Ragebrutalis An ok geared xbow ranger can shoot all adds before saturos is dead and not die of retributive damage. If position is right, he can shoot all adds including boss most shots and survive just fine. Probably depends a bit on tactic, but the way we kill him xbow rangers are almost always top dps - not just among rangers, but every class. And the repositioning on AZ really doenst take that long a time. I would say I hit boss + 1 or 2 adds 90% of my shots. Have never been beaten by a bow ranger on any boss with adds.

There is no way you can attack an utamon with the reflect shield up because puncture will instant wipe you. Your bow rangers are slacking!!

[Yay-grind]

Originally Posted by redevil82 There is no way you can attack an utamon with the reflect shield up because puncture will instant wipe you. Your bow rangers are slacking!!

Yeah not sure how that is possible what Ragebrutalis is saying. When I accidentally hit the Chatha adds (whole lot of them infront of me) and Satorus is still alive - I get practically instant killed. Doesn't matter if I'm using bow (and just used flame barrage that triggered wounds), or piercing shot which applies puncture.

Full T2 ranger here when bow specced, when crossbow specced I'm just missing the xbow (using world epic).

hm, I'm wearing pure dps gear however, maybe that could be the difference? Coupled with usually group without a healer (or 1 slacking tos), hm?

[Ragebrutalis]

Originally Posted by Pippincro Yeah not sure how that is possible what Ragebrutalis is saying. When I accidentally hit the Chatha adds (whole lot of them infront of me) and Satorus is still alive - I get practically instant killed. Doesn't matter if I'm using bow (and just used flame barrage that triggered wounds), or piercing shot which applies puncture.

I always go all out nuke on adds. Puncture has never reflected back on me. However, if I am grouped with a HoX or ToS with team-based dmg procc buffs I will get killed instantly while nuking adds. If I am not in a group with such team-buffs, I can freely nuke adds without fear of puncture or any other of my own bleeds - even fleshripper. Only thing that kills me is aggro.

Other xbow rangers in my guild can probably confirm this since we always put xbow rangers mainly on adds to maximize their efficency. My specc is geared towards pvp, but pve-specced rangers don't get one-shot either. It must be a group setup/buff problem.

However, I feel this thread has been hijacked a bit now

[SgtStav]

Yes you can fire xbow tru addds on chata.

(Keep in mind though, watch out for aggro from utamons )
get some damage but not more than maybee 10% of my health pool.

the first time i was there on my ranger alt, i was first or second on dps list.

[redevil82]

Yeah thread succefully hijacked but this discussion is more interesting because every time you hit an Utamon with its SiN buff up it will hit you back for 700 regardless of if its a DOT or rebutive damage or normal hit so if you hit all 3 utamons asuming you preloaded without hiting them 1 PS will hit you for 2100 damage which is around 20% of a rangers HP. I cant be sure if puncture does reflect back because I haven't been crazy enought to shoot one when i'm not supposed to. I do know that things like Infestation from the necros which are DoTs always kill them if they are noob enough to use it, so I don't see what make the ranger bleeds any different.