[tafale]

It seems like you've decent experience. Normal modes are great since it shows basic boss/environmental mechanics decently and that your necro is already experienced in HMs.

Even though I would advice you getting a bit better gear on sin (mostly for survivability) you should be fine just joining for a dps/random spot in a pug. Simply say: hi, sin (exp, no aa). Pugs rarely said no to my sin/barb when doing so even though TW/FH was still on training because you joined the dps spot, not the rogue one.

Take note of boss cast bar and buffs (e.g. Necropolis boss will somewhat rarely get a bright blue icon that must be removed with TW when the group go up to the boss and before dps can start since it will otherwise heal the boss). Also read the wiki I posted earlier since it explains what to look out for cast bar and buff (icon) wise as a rogue with TW/FH. You can also ask guildies to help explain stuff if still unclear/you're unsure. Please do this research before you join for a rogue spot though and you should be fine.

Good luck.

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

Originally Posted by tafale (e.g. Necropolis boss will somewhat rarely get a bright blue icon that must be removed with TW when the group go up to the boss and before dps can start since it will otherwise heal the boss)

somewhat rarely??
come on!! don't pretend that you don't know that it's on the joy pillar!!

[graverr]

Originally Posted by Jovana HOX is not the same as any other dps class becouse hox doesent have TW & FH and that is really really important so i usually like to have 1 sin and 1 ranger/barb instead of hox, so if one TW/FH user dies its not a wipe becouse second one can replace her/him.Alas i dont remamber i ever saw conq. being main tank, i would sooner have 1 DT and 1 Guard then conq. but then again its just me, i saw from my personal exp. in pve that its easier to win instances with classes named abowe

this is the stupidest unlogical opinion i have seen about hox so far.

hox is mage and hox has *UNBINDING CHARM* like necro/demo.hox does aoe like necro/demo.what is wrong in taking a hox instead of a demo/necro


having 2 rogues is also unnecesary .you only need 1 rogue and he/she should not fail,period.

comparing a hox to a rogue is also unnecesary and makes no sense whatsoever..

so many ppl play hm group leader nowdays with no clue about what they are doing,and the quote above is the proof of it.

1 example i saw only today is *ARDASHIR FORT HM 5/6 need mage(gear/aa/exp)*..really ? since when is a mage a must for AF and why does it need any perks?

[Valiantina]

When I found out how freaking easy KK HM is, it almost made me start crying. Enigmata (Spawn/Annihilator) doesn't even require critigation gear since they never do critical hits (atleast I've never seen it, and I've parsed every fight I've done). You only need resolve, some crafted protection gear, rings and cloak and a healer who can remove ruin in time. That's it! Necropolis is slightly harder, but really only requires 1 good geared tank and some decent dps.

[noite80]

af can be done easier without a mage 2 rogues 1 on each crab removing heal
a well specd hox has plenty of dots and nice splach like any other mage especialy using prince of terror

coppice can be done without a mage with pom with holy cleansing kitting or any other class if you have bs with grace of nature specd

only real requirement for most hm's is tank who knows how to tank and healer with sf rogues im afraid usualy need both perks for going around doing hm's

but its no surprise that most people forming groups in global on crom want people with exp given most of them are arrogant beguiners with no will to listen to others or even make efford to learn class they are playing i see quite a few rolling fresh lvl80 after another they gear them with epics in kithai and roll a new char and do the same
most imba example are the amount of fully geared conqs who dont know what hoarfrost does and how even to activate it
to each his own they pay to play so have its their own issue i prefer to do groups with people from guild or friends friends with all on vent/ts any gaps of knowledge how dungeon works or lack of aa's needed are easily overcome with friendly open minded people
best option for any noob is to join a friendly guild i would recomend crucible and domus serpentis on crom server from my experience they usualy have friendly people wich dont make a fuss about noobs and usualy are open minded adult people who dont enrage ofc there are more noob friendly guilds on crom but given i play game for so long i tend to play with veteran noob player from my friends list and my current guild

[Valiantina]

And yes ofc there are dungeons that do require ppl have good gear, especially tanks, like Ardashir, Vile, Den just to name a few. But that's in my understanding not what this topic is about. The issue here is that, I'm hoping, in most cases ppl are typing "(AA, Exp Gear)" out of old habit (or being too lazy to change script) and in the process scaring away ppl who aren't very geared or experienced.

There will always be people who leave group after 1 wipe (or even just seeing a member of group isn't very good geared). For the moment I will leave this issue aside.

Suggestions for solving the problem of groups being too hostile towards new players/characters?

One soluiton I use (and I see others also use) is to start NM groups, and if we seem to have a good group we try to do a few tries in HM in some dungeons.

[jauertussen]

Originally Posted by Chaoskult guardian who says he can tank and when its time to tank he does not know how and keeps failing. sin who joins group as the only rogue, his job was to remove burn skin from flame boss. turns out he had so much lvl60 gear that his hit rating was too low to succesfully remove burn skin. healer who is only healing. carnage conq who actually thought he was able to tank adds in pagoda. pyjama dt's in general, the worst and most useles player in a group. can't tank, can't control dps but master of running back from res pad these are some examples when "AA, gear and exp" message didn't work or mean anything. luckily kick from group option is working, and then $hitlist that person ofc.

carnage conc can tank adds

[tafale]

Originally Posted by Valiantina One soluiton I use (and I see others also use) is to start NM groups, and if we seem to have a good group we try to do a few tries in HM in some dungeons.

Very nice suggestion and also a great way to get HM experience.

Since people are mentioning groups generally:
Most HMs don't need high skill or gear level to be successful. Tanks can be bad aggro wise and even gear wise if they some clue about aggro switching. If rogue is decent with TW/FH then even group DPS can be terrible (e.g. Coppice HM, Abyss HM, etc) and yet kill it easily.

This don't mean people should slack but that HMs have a lot of leeway. When I do T’ian’an HM on HoX with a good group and beat a necro in DPS then I don't call him a noob with L2P issues. Run went well and that is all that really matters.

[PutchPT]

Originally Posted by cins mages are born ready for hardmodes (except Abyss and Coppice).

what is there main job in abyss and coppice if you dont mind answering?

Originally Posted by graverr idk why that is .ppl seem to invent new rules now lol.2 healers,2 rogues,ranged mage?wtf is with that.

i agree, when i try to get a group i only say 2xhealers, 2xtanks, 1xdps (im rogue already), does not matter wich class (unless is priest, is better to have one of each)...
i think funcom created every NM and HM meant to be played with any combination of 2xtank, 2xhealers, 2xdps, no matter the classes (its the logical thing to do)...
some instances are easier with certain combinations? YES!!!

sometimes i don't get into pugs because i'm barbarian and pp want an assassin for more dps, what they don't know is that i can do more "damage/aggro control" than a lot of sins that i've seen in pugs HM/raids and never steal the aggro for the mt.

it's a question of knowing how to play your class and also using "team perks" like the rogue as the one that gives tank evade and weapon damage and the tanks have one that gives priests healing and damage.

so, in some cases (if not most of them ) it's the player, not the class, that makes the difference (unless some vital AA is required)

[Yawgmoth-VDN]

Originally Posted by PutchPT what is there main job in abyss and coppice if you dont mind answering?

in coppice, the boss casts a black aoe to the player that is further away from him, so he/she has to keep moving, and since from time to time the boss casts a root to somebody, it has to be a mage, 'cos that root can be removed with unbinding charm...
in abyss, unbinding charm removes the charm that kun-wu casts from time to time... but everybody can do it, it's just enough to cc the charmed player...

Originally Posted by PutchPT i think funcom created every NM and HM meant to be played with any combination of 2xtank, 2xhealers, 2xdps, no matter the classes (its the logical thing to do)...

at the beginning some instances required 2 rogues, and even then you had to make it flawless with just 2, so 3 was raccomended!!
you have not done abyss before nerf, do you??



ps: actually, coppice is the only instance where demo/necro are definitely better than hox, 'cos the caster has to stay away from the boss and to bring a hox for that job would be a waste of a dps spot...