[Skant]

Originally Posted by Slith short stuff on pvp: 1/ new minigame 2/ Shrines of bori pvp (failed and forgoten content) 3/ rised pvp lvl to 10 4/ new armor 6-8 and 9-10lvl 5/ new CC system, less CC in combat, no CC chains 6/ combo skipping exploit is gone 7/ pvp is somewhat balanced, no abrudly OP classes reading through my blog www.assassinshideout.com should give you good idea what has happened since 2008 till now

point 5 is bugged and heavily flaw though^^

[Kleoh]

Originally Posted by gazoder in release pve was crap, but was pvp all around. After pvp got nerfed, and pve was improoved a lot.

This is kinda not true.

At launch PvE was limited and the game had around 900k players so the game ended up being a gankfest from lvl 1 to 80. At 80 you could only do raids and the occasional dungeons which drop blue gear, other than that you had PvP. PvP was either duelling in khesh, ganking people who wanted to lvl in khesh, ganking people who went to do raids in khesh or running around in Tortage killing newcomers.

The PvP had no consequenses, you could kill anyone no matter which lvl they had without getting any kind of punishment.

I don't pvp today, so I dont know the situation as of today.

[K4nnyc]

The game was unfinished at launch, it took 18 months to get to a reasonable and stable state. Some basic systems were not even in game. PvP had no XP system, gear or levels. PvE was very very buggy and only a small selection of heavily exploitable raids were available.

The bug resolution process and exploit closing was AND STILL IS, insanely slow.

Class balance is done anually, sometimes takes 2 years for them to do anything, even then they can mess it up and leave it broken for many months, the ranger revamp is a classic example.

A consequence system was introduced, what we know as the murder system. It does not deter people from acting like cvnts and thus doesnt work at all. Its been broken since launch. Useless system imo, and needs a full revamp.

The first pvp xp was introduced. It was exploited heavily and some people got temp bans.

Bori - WORST SYSTEM EVER. PvP at its absolute worst in any game ever in the history of mankind since the beginning of time. It was so bad people were transfering to low population PVE-RP servers to farm level up to pvp lvl 10. There are PvP 10 guardians with 200kills and 400 deaths in full pvp 10 gear out there. An astonishingly bad system.

Khitia expansion, a beautifully made expansion which introduced AA. A fun system and very interesting for character development. Bad for overall pvp balance. Put a vet nexto a fresh 80 and the vet usually one/two shots the new guy. Doesnt make for great pvp.

Lots of excellent PvE content added.

--

General state of PvE: Lots of content, which is fun and engaging. Its why "most" of the current population (including me) are still here.

General state of PvP: Utterly broken on so many levels. 1 pvp minigame map added in 4 years. Sieges (mass pvp content) broken. No consequence system where there should be a very hard consequence system in place. Poor balance for vets with OP pvp gear and tons of AA vs new players - a huge deterrent for newcomers. A disparity that must be corrected if pvp has a future. Balance now at top level is reasonable but something needs to be done so newbies dont face these pvp10 uber geared AA people. It just drives people away from the game.

[Aell]

Originally Posted by K4nnyc Poor balance for vets with OP pvp gear and tons of AA vs new players - a huge deterrent for newcomers. A disparity that must be corrected if pvp has a future. Balance now at top level is reasonable but something needs to be done so newbies dont face these pvp10 uber geared AA people. It just drives people away from the game.

Here, we disagree but it's the only point I disagree on.

What we actually need is content-unlocks with PvP levels, not combat powerups. Giving somebody who's good at PvP a combat powerup is possibly the single most retarded design decision ever (I include Bori in that. Seriously. It's even dumber than Bori).

What kind of content? Well... just for sake of example, what if gaining PvP1 gave you the right to lead a Faction raid? What if you could gain PvP1 and then attack an opposing Faction's NPC city for 30 minutes? Add PvP 2 and you can bring 2 people with you. 10 people at PvP10. It doesn't matter what the content actually is, it should be sharable content (hence inviting other players) and it should NOT be gear or weapons or fairies or any of the usual stupidity.

At the same time, you do a re-pass on all existing gear and you restore the Heroic ratings so that none of it makes you uber in PvP and, except for HP additions, you might as well fight naked.

Then you have fun PvP again with no barriers to entry, PvPers gaining a sensible reward that offers replayable content and PvEers still doing their thing exactly as now.

Of course, it would mean that grinding Yag runs won't make you into a PvP god but then really, PvE shouldn't make you good at PvP.

[Ekorn]

Originally Posted by Aell Here, we disagree but it's the only point I disagree on. What we actually need is content-unlocks with PvP levels, not combat powerups. Giving somebody who's good at PvP a combat powerup is possibly the single most retarded design decision ever (I include Bori in that. Seriously. It's even dumber than Bori). What kind of content? Well... just for sake of example, what if gaining PvP1 gave you the right to lead a Faction raid? What if you could gain PvP1 and then attack an opposing Faction's NPC city for 30 minutes? Add PvP 2 and you can bring 2 people with you. 10 people at PvP10. It doesn't matter what the content actually is, it should be sharable content (hence inviting other players) and it should NOT be gear or weapons or fairies or any of the usual stupidity. At the same time, you do a re-pass on all existing gear and you restore the Heroic ratings so that none of it makes you uber in PvP and, except for HP additions, you might as well fight naked. Then you have fun PvP again with no barriers to entry, PvPers gaining a sensible reward that offers replayable content and PvEers still doing their thing exactly as now. Of course, it would mean that grinding Yag runs won't make you into a PvP god but then really, PvE shouldn't make you good at PvP.

<3<3<3

/10chars

[Kurt777]

Originally Posted by Aell ... What we actually need is content-unlocks with PvP levels, not combat powerups. Giving somebody who's good at PvP a combat powerup is possibly the single most retarded design decision ever (I include Bori in that. Seriously. It's even dumber than Bori). ....

I second that, though getting more options or choices like with a non too powerfull tree might be valid.
You don't have to be EInstein to find out, that linear gear progression for those already powerfull will affect the motivation and learning curve of newcomers exponentially. For me it was ok to die, as long as i could find out why. If i die in 1s there is neither learning curve nor fun. In addition to the pure pvp approach, the constant addon of working pve gear in pvp ist not helping either.
Two steps that might actually help pvp without messing too much with anyones gamestyle (fps, rpg, tactic, solo, zerg) might be some pvp level dependant feat tree (to allow customization in a very minor way, nothing OP like silver or golden AA perks) to keep the "power and level" people happy. Gearwise there should be a distinction between basic value, +pve values and +pvp values. This would allow for keeping pvp gear in check and balanced, while still adding more tiers, adventure packs etc..
Oh, and of course the things you suggested, too. More options or raising the level to finally access the "royal battleground" or the "haunted dungeon" as mini map or open pvp ground might be fun!

[Scythie]

I am soo happy this thread happens in the New Player forum.
That way the new players can get disillutioned right off the bat.

Can mod please move it to a more fitting whine area?

[Kurt777]

Did i miss a whine somewhere?
Apart from not mentioning all the revamps (i experienced assasin, ranger, guardian and pom. of which assasin and ranger where really gamestyle changing, while guardian and pom minor tweaks) and Turan as PvE as well as the amazing horse racing track, i found the history quite interesting stated.

[PutchPT]

a good the way to see what happened is to read the updates from the beginning (the launcher has most of the stuff, but the forum is more detailed), that way you will see what was revamped and what was added to the game as new content (you can ignore bugs fix)...

and play the game the way it is now and you will like it, of course veterans (since 2008) will tell they hate at lot of stuff that is new but most new players like it (old timers are always old timers - NOT AN INSULT)

[Aell]

Originally Posted by PutchPT most new players like it

I hope they're both very happy.