fixing PvP crowd control imbalances

[Iyon]

This is why it should be changed, who wants to pvp with a crutch.

I don't agree nerfing it though (not without AA refund/rework), but changing it total to work different. If funcom still want KB, lower CD of spell and increase CD of KB imunity.

I didnt bother writing a lengthy response at first, my bad:

When they introduced AAs we got LtP which instantly was recognized as THE AA skill to have, since the class was so f**ed in pvp from before (at least for those that didnt _always_ sign as premade).

Reducing a 2.5s to a .3s cast time on a 1.5k - 5k dmg aoe every 15 secs did wondrous things to our dps and making a pom a threat in it's own (perfectly in line with other classes today). Before this, a pom was only a threat every 2 mins when IW was off cd. It was basically a crutch to make the class work.

After revamp, LtP repulse is now not such a big crutch, since it doesnt make up a huge portion of our dps anymore. But, in the revamp they also changed and removed much of our ability for team support, for which repulse is magnificent. Therefore repulse remains something defining about the class, one of the last things you can pull out of your sleeve to surprise with if you will.

Now getting to my point: Nerfing it further will in my eyes require another look at the class in terms of a revamp. And since we just had a revamp, we are not likely to get another anytime soon.

Idc if i come off as an old dog hanging on to my last little bone, I'm just skeptical towards advocating radical changes like this when the effective development hours dedicated to AoC may be anywhere from 0 - 100(?) per month.

[Iyon]

Repulse + Repudiate... That's two of the best CCs ingame to possibly put together as you can weave them together.
Are you saying Funcom should balance classes according to improper pug-play because we can't always utilize this combination there?

Are you saying Funcom should balance according to what abilities can be used together or to create synergies? Guardians Frenzybubbling, PoM's Manifestation of Mitra + group bubble?

Not trying to be a dick, i just dont follow the reasoning. It seems like the Recently Impaired buff is really what you want to change with in that example.

[yuisoku]

Why PoMs qq about repulse? Its one of strongest abilities in whole game Even more when instant

[Ieronon]

Concerning Repulse + LtP, a change I'd like to suggest would be to make it so Light the Path does not proc on friendly crits (that is mostly : Light of Mitra stam and mana crits).

It would not remove completely the instant repulse from the game but a PoM would have to be much more aggressive to get it (i.e. actually do damage instead of casting emanation of life and wait) and would limit most uses of instant repulse as an opening move.

[Lurvi]

I'm just skeptical towards advocating radical changes like this

Radical changes? Going from instant to 0.5 is nothing radical. I state again. People will still be falling over.

PoMs should have the kind of power offered by aoe knockback to aoe snare. All Im saying is these aoe instant knockbacks are a problem to this game and something should be done.

Honestly I think maybe PoM could have instant, but we need the doubletap to be less crippling and timeconsuming so there is some possible way to avoid/minimize the total disaster, as currently one good PoM/Demo KB can win the game for you.

[lonetac]

Concerning Repulse + LtP, a change I'd like to suggest would be to make it so Light the Path does not proc on friendly crits (that is mostly : Light of Mitra stam and mana crits).

It would not remove completely the instant repulse from the game but a PoM would have to be much more aggressive to get it (i.e. actually do damage instead of casting emanation of life and wait) and would limit most uses of instant repulse as an opening move.

and completely degrades an AA that literally takes 100's of points to train fully.

Look, if you want to change the poms' ltp there needs to be serious changes to the class and im not talking all the nerfs of the last revamp, im talking positive steps.

Every 3 months repulse gets nerfed again and im tired of ppl crying about it already. Every class has skills like this, not just the PoM.

I will entertain changing it to a longer cast time if there is serious reworkings done to make the class more viable and all classes are treated with the same prejudice that the pom is.

Rangers traps for example, demo's explosion skill, conq knockback on charge, etc.

To the people saying all we see is "nerf" is because thats exactly what you are talking about. You are taking more away from us and not providing anything in return. If you dont want players to see it as a nerf then dont call for nerfs. Its pretty simple...

Keep making comments about PoMs crying, all i see are players crying about one of the least dominate priests in the game... Throw us a bone already, its a two way street. A PoM defending his class using justification and game facts is not crying. Making posts calling for nerfs to them is.

[Ieronon]

and completely degrades an AA that literally takes 100's of points to train fully.

With Light of Mitra you don't need more than 2/5 on Light the path for it to be effective, which is what ? 10 points maybe ? And if you don't run Light of Mitra this "tweak" won't change anything for you.

(Also people should realize by now that the prowess/mastery points "cost" is not a cost, it's only a delay. Everyone will be full perk eventually. The only real cost of Light the Path is : a silver perk slot.)

Ah, and I am not proposing this because I hate poms, quite the contrary (the toon I play most in pvp right now is a pom and I tend to abuse LtP + LoM).
It's just that I cannot disagree that LtP + LoM beats one of the original purpose of the cc revamp that was I think to get rid of instant ccs. What would make LtP ok is that it requires a little setup to proc but proccing from LoM makes that setup basically non-existant.

[Iyon]

Radical changes? Going from instant to 0.5 is nothing radical. I state again. People will still be falling over.

PoMs should have the kind of power offered by aoe knockback to aoe snare. All Im saying is these aoe instant knockbacks are a problem to this game and something should be done.

Honestly I think maybe PoM could have instant, but we need the doubletap to be less crippling and timeconsuming so there is some possible way to avoid/minimize the total disaster, as currently one good PoM/Demo KB can win the game for you.

Removing repulse is radical enough yes, it was hinted at in this thread, not by you, but I took the liberty of replying to that in here even so.

Setting a cast time a 0.5s wont give you time to pull off a double tap just from staring at the cast bar, so why go there? A successful Double tap kb evasion today requires a tiny bit of "anticipation", either from spotting the buff, timing the 30s since last repulse or spotting the movement pattern. Giving LtP repulse a (tiny) cast time is a huge nerf to that ability (since it can be casted while moving), while not a big gain for opponents/victims. Giving it an even longer cast time (upwards to 1s) essentially nullifies that silver perk. Keep in mind PoM's have had their Inclusion nullified and LtP nerfed already. Which other classes has had their AAs nerfed? I at least feel that changing it further calls for bigger changes to the class as well, which I'm not fundamentally against.

There are other examples of well played abilities that win minigames as well, so I don't follow that point either.

[Lurvi]

You are taking more away from us and not providing anything in return.

This is not the case at all.
I already gave my acceptance that maybe poms should have their instant, though others may disagree.

If we get better doubletap, and some nerfed knockback animations in certain cases, it's actually PoMs that can benefit more.

Setting a cast time a 0.5s wont give you time to pull off a double tap just from staring at the cast bar, so why go there?

Maybe not when you put it like this, but it will buy some time which is much needed with the network sync + time to activate doubletap, though it could backfire if you anticipate too soon and your doubletap already ended
Which is why Im leaning more towards emphasizing on introducing and tweaking doubletaps to be more used by the majority.

[lonetac]

With Light of Mitra you don't need more than 2/5 on Light the path for it to be effective, which is what ? 10 points maybe ? And if you don't run Light of Mitra this "tweak" won't change anything for you.

(Also people should realize by now that the prowess/mastery points "cost" is not a cost, it's only a delay. Everyone will be full perk eventually. The only real cost of Light the Path is : a silver perk slot.)

Ah, and I am not proposing this because I hate poms, quite the contrary (the toon I play most in pvp right now is a pom and I tend to abuse LtP + LoM).
It's just that I cannot disagree that LtP + LoM beats one of the original purpose of the cc revamp that was I think to get rid of instant ccs. What would make LtP ok is that it requires a little setup to proc but proccing from LoM makes that setup basically non-existant.

This isnt ok for me. We trained LTP to full to get use out of the skill. I care about the time and points invested into a skill and having it nerfed yet again. I spent 100's of points and hours of time trying to get this skill and to have it degraded yet again is another slap to the face. New poms being able to just put 2/5 into it to make it viable is not my concern.

AA's are time and effort, ive been playing since early tech beta and still have yet to fill my AA trees so your choices do matter (granted i took a 6 month break in the last year and my play time isnt as heavy as launch, the point is still there). The cost is investing in LtP instead of other AA's, thats a real concern for people who have invested the amount of points it takes to train to rank 5. Rank 4 to 5 is 90 something points if i remember correctly (feel free to correct me with the exact amount) and takes over a month to time train that jump (not to mention what it takes to get there). That is a serious investment.

Like stated before, all classes have these kinds of setups and I dont want us singling out the PoM unless the class is going to get some serious overhauls that are positive, not the fluff they did before. Having our main debuff removed was a serious nerf, adding to the cast time of repulse was a serious nerf, reworking of our trees was a serious nerf if you played certain styles (big heal aoe dmg for example) and quite frankly having to relearn my class every 4 months because someone doesnt like repulse is getting old. Its in the game, learn to combat it like i have with being cc locked and bombed by a sin guaranteeing my death. Ive never once called for a nerf to their class because there is 0 chance of me surviving their onslaught, ive accepted it and do my best to avoid it.