fixing PvP crowd control imbalances

[Lurvi]

Zychic has a point. Some people just can't take a real look things. Look at Lonetac now going so far trying to skew things to his favor.

This is reality:
Rangers = not instant, can be avoided as pointed out in thread already
Barbs = not even near instant, what are you even on about
Conq = almost instant
Demo = hellfire stream has to be applied, but in reality considered instant

Not the same thing as ltp Repulse as Lonetac just said.

Then the "awww repulse not working! everyone running around with immunities"
If you hang around behind for too long, yes. Initiation is the real power of repulse imo.

Don't get me wrong. Poms should have Repulse and it should be one of the strongest abilites ingame.
I simply wanted to talk about fast/instant knockbacks and doubletaps. My point was never intended to talk out poms in particular. You guys are making a big deal about it, singling out poms as "the victims" here. Margins matter, and I believe there are ways to tweak these things.

Edited by Arishanya. Keep the troll and flame words to yourselves.

[Sarcopthes]

Propose for CC immunities.
1 minute immunity for EVERY SINGLE CC in game.

this would only make tanks even more OP and game boring. you should be cautious about ccs.

there has to be some adjustment made to double tapping. Maybe extending effect for another 1- 2 sec instead?

I obviously agree with the concept to change that silly instant cc's like Boa. Its much easier to predict snapkick than boa which even doesnt even need to make any steps before and is aoe.

[Iyon]

I agree that some tweaks to CC immunities might be in order: cc-locking is easier now than before the cc-revamp.

Poms should have Repulse and it should be one of the strongest abilites ingame.

I'm not 100% agreed here. My point in all my answers has been that PoMs were given an OP AA mechanic to bring it on par with other classes. It has since taken so many tweaks and nerfs that I'm afraid that further tweaks will bring the class as whole too far back towards the days when it was perceived as the weakest class in PvP.

The solution would then be another mini revamp.

Call me names all you want, but I'm a bit sceptical about those half assed tweaks and revamps that per example broke the Ranger. and overdid the conq dps by a few percent.

I have yet to understand from your posts, exactly what you think problem is and the ramifications are and how it creates imbalances. Is it because you feel entitled to be able to evade all cc's at will that you want to reduce the number of (near-)instant knockbacks?

[Slith]

Here are the advantages or so called OP Snap Kick

1/ 1 step combo,
2/ must be feated in
2/ shares the range with dagger weapon making it shortest range KB in game
3/ single target KB, (possible to KB more than one character in very tight clusters of people)
4/ consumes 1 soul shard when used
5/ requires targeting
6/ since it is a combo it can't be used in the middle of your other combos like some classes can

compared with Barbarian non-feated, 2 hand weapon-reach, large cone, no soul shard ******** knockack(s) the only advantage of Assassin's Snap Kick is a faster animation.

Hey Barbs, wanna trade?

[Thutkemi]

Here are the advantages or so called OP Snap Kick

1/ 1 step combo,
2/ must be feated in
2/ shares the range with dagger weapon making it shortest range KB in game
3/ single target KB, (possible to KB more than one character in very tight clusters of people)
4/ consumes 1 soul shard when used
5/ requires targeting
6/ since it is a combo it can't be used in the middle of your other combos like some classes can

compared with Barbarian non-feated, 2 hand weapon-reach, large cone, no soul shard ******** knockack(s) the only advantage of Assassin's Snap Kick is a faster animation.

Hey Barbs, wanna trade?

The barb cone kb is feated. The unfeated KB can, like Snapkick, hit multiple enemies with good positioning (and of course, the 2H range allows this more easily).

[Lurvi]

Call me names all you want, but I'm a bit sceptical about those half assed tweaks and revamps that per example broke the Ranger. and overdid the conq dps by a few percent.

You said it yourself, and I agree. They did their tweaking, but is it enough? No!
Why can't they make BoA 0.75 sec cast?
Why can't they decrease AoE range of ranger traps?
Why are the no proper KB animations from barb, bs and guard like in the old days when you had some time to react.
Things like that.

A half assed tweak is simply something not tweaked enough. FC always rushed their content. That is the reason BoA is the way it is now. Do you understand me?

I have yet to understand from your posts, exactly what you think problem is and the ramifications are and how it creates imbalances. Is it because you feel entitled to be able to evade all cc's at will that you want to reduce the number of (near-)instant knockbacks?

Im not talking about evading all cc's at will. A doubletapped knockback is not nearly equal to evading or resisting a knockback. You only reduce the effect.

If they are gonna keep these instants, atleast make it easier to try for anticipation and doubletapping (read smoothen out doubletaps).

@Slith, Snapkick was the kb I was most hesitant to include in my first post. With the range, and nature of assassin it should be very swift, but I included it to make a point, that majority of KBs are too fast for a working dynamic system involving doubletaps. Some of them should be changed or slowed down a tiny bit. Repulse may be excluded, Snapkick may be exlcuded. All Im asking is for some freakkin tweaks

[Slith]

Some of them should be changed or slowed down a tiny bit. Repulse may be excluded, Snapkick may be exlcuded. All Im asking is for some freakkin tweaks

Oh I am all in favor of making CC in combat avoidable via skill and yes, snap kick can be pretty much only anticipated, rarely avoided when it is already in montion.

I was only showing that there is a certain trade off for snap kick's swiftness as it comes with many disadvantages (like range or soul shard consumption).

However if the devs were going to indeed change KB abilities across the board I would mind having snap kick slower if, for example, the combo became non-feated one.

[Zatochi]

Oh I am all in favor of making CC in combat avoidable via skill and yes, snap kick can be pretty much only anticipated, rarely avoided when it is already in montion.

I was only showing that there is a certain trade off for snap kick's swiftness as it comes with many disadvantages (like range or soul shard consumption).

However if the devs were going to indeed change KB abilities across the board I would mind having snap kick slower if, for example, the combo became non-feated one.

Ppl will always see just advantages when comparing feats of their favourite class to another one. of course the advantages are always on side of the other class. Thats why feedback on TL forum gets more and more worse from revamp to revamp.

This rule seems to be even more true, when the class compared to is the sin.

[lonetac]

This is reality:
Rangers = not instant, can be avoided as pointed out in thread already
Barbs = not even near instant, what are you even on about
Conq = almost instant
Demo = hellfire stream has to be applied, but in reality considered instant

Not the same thing as ltp Repulse as Lonetac just said.
.

My point was every class has cheese moves like repulse, not exactly repulse. Demo skill is 9 times more powerful than repulse.
1. It can be applied from a distance
2. You can wait and detonate whenever you want
3. It has the same ability to knockback an entire group like repulse.

When i started my demo i couldnt help but think this skill was way better than repulse because you can control it and where it goes. You also dont need to feet several 100 AA's and spend months training it to get it there. There is the reality, its not skewed in my favor. Its we are nitpicking on nerfing poms again and its BS when other classes are doing things just as similiar.

Sins can knock back a pvp 8 pom and that pom is dead without much they can do if against a similiar geared sin. Even with repulse, explain that?

conqs charging, knocking back and bursting you down to 30% health isnt cheese? At least this requires ass loads of AA's like LtP does and rightfully so.

Barbs can knockback 10 ppl as well if they all line up perfectly. One button. I dont think barbs need tweaking but im just saying. I hit one button on my barb and 5 ppl can go flying.

Ranger traps are instant and can be 10 times more effective than repulse.

Im not butthurt, if you want to have a rational conversation then lets do it. PoMs and repulse are not the issue here and if we are going to go on about them then lets talk about everyone else, they have skills just as useful.

Im tired of players every 4 months crying about repulse and then the GD's look at it and they nerf us again because some players are just incapable of playing a game where they dont have a severe advantage. And repulse does not make poms the most powerful class in the game, take it away and nerf LtP some more and you change the scope of this class tremendously.

Like a broken record, PoMs have seen more nerfs to it than any other class since launch. So when someone starts screaming for more then yes, i am going to interject and argue that out. Enough is enough already.

[Zatochi]

1. It can be applied from a distance
2. You can wait and detonate whenever you want
3. It has the same ability to knockback an entire group like repulse.

Wrong, just wrong.

1. the distance you can actual detonate "Detonate" (lol) is as high as the range of repulse, mayb 1m shorter.
2. It cant be detonated whenever you want. you can just detonate it when the dot is running meaning 5 seconds (if i remember correctly).
3. Not really. not even close to it. Because everyone needs to be close to detonate. the taregt is 2 m in fornt of you, another enemy behind the demo, then only one will be knockbacked, the target. the actual space you can hit with repulse is higher then with detonate.

you pointed out 3 false points. period.

I could get on with all the other points you mentioned, but i am tired of it. Let a pom kick a sin, sin will be dead within this knockback. same situation, no class has a disadvantage in this scenario. but pom will have 2 bubbles and heal if he really needs a little more time to kill the sin.